Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Middle-earth plants

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Lord Roem ~ (talk) 05:48, 1 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Middle-earth plants

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Another LOTR list devoid of mainstream notability. Clarityfiend (talk) 20:06, 23 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I am also nominating the following related page for the same reason:

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 20:13, 23 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete — list of trivia.--Jack Upland (talk) 22:20, 23 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete due to being just a trivia list. Mental snack food that belongs on a LOTR Wiki.TH1980 (talk) 00:24, 24 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy Keep Another frivolous nomination. In this case, it appears that no effort has been made to even read the article, never mind searching for sources as required by WP:BEFORE. When one reads the article, one soon sees that the sources include a respectable book published by a university press which is all about the topic: Flora of Middle-Earth. It's easy to find more books about this and related topics including The Plants of Middle-Earth; Ents, Elves, and Eriador: The Environmental Vision of J.R.R. Tolkien; A Tolkien Bestiary; The Ecology of Middle Earth; The Science of Middle Earth; Representations of Nature in Middle-earth; &c. This nomination seems so careless that the appropriate admin action is to impose a topic ban. Andrew D. (talk) 00:33, 24 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Draftify/Userfy I... actually somewhat agree with Andrew D.? Has hell frozen over? Ignoring the uncalled-for ad-hominem WP:NOTHERE attacks, there are clearly independent secondary sources about the plants and animals of Middle-Earth. The only problem is that the article doesn't actually use them, and is unencyclopedic in its current state. I don't think it should be summarily kept, but it should be draftified and improved._{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 12:24, 24 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

In that case, delete all unexceptional plants and animals.--Jack Upland (talk) 19:47, 24 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Draftify If properly sourced, the article could pass WP:GNG based on Andrews D.'s sources. Delete the insignificant plants and animals and keep the ones with actual secondary source references (basically delete if only referenced in LOTR/Hobbit/etc.). Maybe move page to List of notable Middle-earth plants? Hog Farm (talk) 01:10, 25 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Fails NFICTION, GNG, LISTN and TRIVIA. No prejudice to anyone who wants to write a non-list article that tackles the issues of environmental issues and Middle-Earth or such, with analytical sources. But a list like this belongs on fandom site like https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_Middle-earth_plants . Feel free to transwiki anything missing from our article there. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:42, 25 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete for WP:TNT reasons. Yes, an article could be written on this topic, but it would have to focus on (sourced) analysis and not be a crufty in-universe list. – sgeureka ^t•c 08:07, 25 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Fantasy-related deletion discussions. Necrothesp (talk) 09:36, 25 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete these as they exist are and will always be non-notable lists amounting to the merger of trivia. Other proposals seem to move too much towards essays, which have a place, but that place is not a Wikipedia article.John Pack Lambert (talk) 21:54, 25 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - I don't know why we're so keen on lists as the first go-to for content like this. If there are sources discussing the flora and fauna of the series, there is no need to list every plant and animal. Summary style discussion should be attempted first thing. Should another well-sourced, mostly out of universe list be formed from that, then that would be fine. There's currently nothing like that for this current incarnation. TTN (talk) 17:35, 26 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete both. All WP:FANCRUFT. Ajf773 (talk) 23:46, 26 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. Ajf773 (talk) 23:46, 26 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - many of these list articles were created as mergers of stubs a long time ago. The redirects pointing to the list article may require that the list is turned into a redirect to preserve the attribution for the edits. Some of the old AfDs on articles relating to Tolkien's works may help as well. As best I can remember, referencing the works of Tolkien's son (Christopher) was considered a secondary source, rather than a primary (in-universe) reference. As an aside, the best fan wiki out there on this topic is actually Tolkien Gateway. Carcharoth (talk) 18:25, 27 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Typically, redirects from an article such as this will be deleted, so there would be no particular reason for anything to be retained. TTN (talk) 18:33, 27 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Not redirects from, redirects to this page. See Wikipedia:Merge and delete: "Pages that have been merged to other articles should almost never be deleted, since our copyright requires all authors to be publicly credited". There are currently 41 pages that redirect to Middle-earth plants. It may be that there is a reason that deletion is OK, and still satisfies the licensing requirements, but if anyone wanted to merge some of this content to other articles, it would be necessary to preserve the edit history in some way to satisfy the attribution requirements of Wikipedia's licensing. Carcharoth (talk) 18:46, 27 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, that's what I meant. The article and all associated redirects will be terminated if it's deleted. Even if the redirects are retained, there is no issue deleting this page. If anything from this page has been merged, then there is likely no way of telling unless someone has documented it, so the point is moot. TTN (talk) 18:58, 27 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Middle-earth objects. Goustien (talk) 07:53, 28 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Faolin42 (talk) 18:33, 29 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.