Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Britney Spears' songs

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep. There is clear precedent for having this kind of list (see Category:Lists of songs by authors or performers). If we are going to delete these lists, it should be at a policy level rather than one-by-one. This article is significantly different and better sourced than the one discussed on the previous AfD. Evil saltine (talk) 09:26, 8 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

List of Britney Spears' songs (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

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Basically falls under WP:NOT. I tried to see if any other lists existed (just of recorded songs by an artist or group), and I can't find any, although I saw some that were redirected back to the artist page. As per an AfD for a similar article on Daughtry, this page is unncessary as any notable songs would be in the Britney Spears discography (and most likely have their own pages). This is essentially a list of trivia. SKS (talk) 05:35, 1 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• KeepThe article contains its sources, i dont understand what is the problem with this article, maybe its a trivia section, maybe not, but if we are going to propose for deletion articles, there are even worst articles that people have come to accept, like 'Unreleased Madonna songs', and that article has even less sources and more information (aka trivia).189.181.218.41 (talk) 08:01, 1 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Regardless of what articles do or do not exist, the fact is that the "sources" on this page are actually quite poor. I removed two "main" sources as it was just a blog/fansite. There are very few outside reliable sources on this page (and it may be difficult to find them). SKS (talk) 21:35, 1 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • Update: The sources of this article are quite improve. You can check them and you will see that those sources are reliable. Fortunato luigi (talk) 03:29, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Redirect to Britney Spears discography, plausible search term. Abductive (reasoning) 08:37, 1 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. -- –Juliancolton | ^Talk 13:31, 1 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. There are similar articles on wikipedia 4 Madonna's & Ace of Base songs, and theyre less sourced than this list. This list exists as a Britney's songography and writing discography and has sources! --PlatinumFire 19:42, 1 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Obviously there will be sources for some Britney Spears songs. The question is why does there have to be an article that entirely duplicates the article Britney Spears discography and each of the album articles. The unreleased songs would require a source that says that they are notable as a class. Abductive (reasoning) 20:05, 1 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• It doesnt duplicate it, it's much more comprehensive and all of the b-sides and some other songs arent mentioned anywhere else but on this article. And there are the Unreleased Madonna songs, List of Ace of Base songs and List of Ace of Base unreleased songs and probably more like this, so it's not one of a kind. --PlatinumFire 20:18, 1 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Show me a released song on her list that isn't somewhere else on Wikipedia. Abductive (reasoning) 20:37, 1 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • "Right Now (Taste the Victory)" released on a pepsi promo cd, She'll Never Be Me, Intimidated (only mentioned in singlebox for Slave), I'm So Curious, We Will Rock You, k-Fed's Crazy.... and all of the leaked songs/unofficially released. And i dont remember if ive seen "Girl & Boys" anywhere else. --PlatinumFire 21:01, 1 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      • How are leaked songs notable? SKS (talk) 21:35, 1 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      • Clearly reaching. Abductive (reasoning) 22:49, 1 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. -- –Juliancolton | ^Talk 13:31, 1 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Redirect per Abductive, nothing here that can't be on the other page but should. Nyttend (talk) 12:41, 3 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Redirect per Abductive. The search term and subject matter are appropriate, but the Britney Spears discography article lists it more appropriately. [[Briguy52748 (talk) 20:35, 3 September 2009 (UTC)]][reply]
• Keep The article have more sources then madonnas unreleased song, and BS list of songs have more notable songs cuz it contains leaked songs, and songs that doesnt appear on any other list of the album. I goin to ask something: how madonnas unreleased songs are notable, when people cant hear them, have them or believe in an article that doesnt have a good amount of sources?????? Besides, madonnas have more information and less sources, you should propose for delete that one... Other point is: the ace of base unreleased songs article is soooo poor, it doesnt have real information,and for the ace of base list of songs, it is an stupid article cuz it doesnt have any new information, for the one that said that BS article has nothing new, he should go and check AOB article it just list all the songs realesed in their albums, and someone said that BS article it just trivia and a list of songs included on her albums, well then both of u should go and delete that article. BS article even list BS writing discography, and commercial songs, those are not mentioned in any other article. Fortunato luigi (talk) 05:48, 4 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep U are goin to love this: have u ever check Unreleased Madonna songs references??? I guess u havent. First of all, there is a scan of a magazine, with no reference of the unreleased songs, the u can find and article abut timbaland and it just mention one unreleased song, then info about a track with co-writing credits, and last, but definitely not least, a fan blog about madonna!!! Yeah, yeah, i gues it is not a reliable source. At least i didint try to hurt article's external link, u know, those who link you to web sites, not related to madonna. I'm not trying to convince you to delete madonna's article, something that, by the way, you should do, i'm trying to show you how people that is trying to delete this article is being subjective and doesn't do this for wiki's sake. On the other hand: have u seen this article: Ace of Base demos, b-sides, unreleased songs just check it and u will realize how people is being subjective. That article really must be deleted Fortunato luigi (talk) 06:17, 4 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Redirect. The list as it is is largely unsourced, and all notable information can and should be included in her discography, some parts possibly in her article.
  Note that the same article was previously discussed and closed as redirect at WP:Articles for deletion/List of Britney Spears songs. All arguments made there still apply. Amalthea 11:17, 4 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • For the millionth time, this article is sourced, check the references for god sakes! And when I include the notable information in other articles, there always comes some smart guy and removes it, so please, this must stay! --PlatinumFire 17:42, 4 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment: Yay, someone called me smart. ^_^ No, but seriously: please read what constitutes as a reliable source on Wikipedia. Fansites are not sources; the only sources that I removed were this fansite and some YouTube link that had a link to download one of the songs on the list. I see on that fansite that while most of the "sources" aren't exactly legit (they're other blogs, forums, etc.), some of the sources are legit for certain songs. Those can, of course, be added. SKS (talk) 17:49, 4 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      • Comment — What makes me so uneasy about an article like this is that any song that Britney Spears (or, fill in the blank with the name of a certain singer) ever sang in her lifetime will be included. We'll get songs like "The Alphabet Song" and "Twinkle Twinkle Little Star" for goodness sakes. OK, I'm being facetious, but you get the idea — any song that she ever sang in concert or on a TV special, that she wrote, etc., would be included in an article like this, and it would be a mishmash of facts and falsehoods. The discography article suffices. [[Briguy52748 (talk) 18:17, 4 September 2009 (UTC)]][reply]
      • SKS, the "smart guy" wasnt meant for u, it was for the one who removed the non-album songs from the discography section, leaked songs from the Blackout section and other songs from the Britney (album) section. And Amalthea, this list is totally different than List of Britney Spears songs was. --PlatinumFire 10:48, 5 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • Then you should reach some kind of consensus about what information is considered notable on the talk page of the discography. The current schism with some info in the discography and some info in the list is counterproductive. Some information, like "unofficial releases" (whatever that is) or live performances of cover versions aren't of sufficient interest, I believe, and shouldn't be included per WP:NOTDIRECTORY. And forgive my bluntness, but the majority of the sources in the list are anything but reliable, and therefore useless: user comments on Spears's webpage or user-generated content at setlist.fm are prime examples of what's not a WP:RS.
      If a list of all officially released Britney Spears songs is considered useful, then it still can't remain in the current form. It should be turned into something like List of Elvis Presley songs or, if proper sources can be found, List of The Beatles songs or List of Blink-182 songs (primary sources only go so far).
      Also note that there is plenty of precedence for such discussions, and most (not all though) are apparently found redundant to the respective discography article when all trivial information is removed: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, ... . There's also precedent for implict consensus at e.g. 1, 2, 3, 4, but of course just as many song lists persist. It would probably be helpful do discuss the value of such lists at e.g. WP:NMUSIC or WT:SONGS.
      Personally I still think that Spears has too few notable songs to warrant such a list, which is pretty much along the lines of the previous AfD. Amalthea 12:17, 7 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      • Keep - Oh and I haven't seen a single source on the List of Elvis Presley songs, that list is even worse than Spears' one. + It's much better when songs are listed by year, the reader of the article can't seem lost that way, like I felt when I read that overcrowded list/table list of The Beatles songs. And I think Miss Spears has enough notable songs for a list like this. --PlatinumFire 12:56, 7 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
        • You have already stated your opinion to keep farther up, it's not necessary to do so again. And the list of songs released on a musicians albums is easily verifiable – primary sources can be used for that if necessary, but Allmusic is good enough for that as well. My point was touching on the scope of the article. Amalthea 13:10, 7 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep - The song list including songs not notable enough for an individual article is appropriate per WP:LSC. The information is not duplicated by the discography, since not all the songs were released as singles. There are plenty of reliable sources, such as allmusic, that would confirm the appropriate songs to include, so there are no issues with "Twinkle Twinkle" or the like. Rlendog (talk) 00:58, 5 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep - The article was improved. Now, it has more reliable sources and a lot of new sources to confirm the information publicated here. The article must stay here now that has become a better article than it was. It has sources for songs that appear on other artists albums, live versions covers, covers and unofficially released songs. The article must stay since the info shown there is not suitable information for the Britney Spears Discography, so they can be merged into one. Fortunato luigi (talk) 03:20, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Please note that this user has voted three times. SKS (talk) 04:06, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment: To SKS - Sooo..???? I just goint to quote wiki's guide for deletion: "The debate is not a vote; please make recommendations on the course of action to be taken, sustained by arguments." Oops...I think your comment was erroneous:( SOrry ;) Anyway, once that i clear u that situation: Keep Keep Keep XD read before u speak, thanks Fortunato luigi (talk) 04:46, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      • Out of the mouths of newbies; AfD is a vote. Abductive (reasoning) 09:11, 8 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.