Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Institute for Cultural Diplomacy (4th nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. The page name will be fully protected to prevent recreation. User:Diplomaciacultural has been indefinitely blocked for using a corporate name and for that corporation making legal threats. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 11:42, 5 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Institute for Cultural Diplomacy

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This article has been deleted three times previously, on notability grounds. The current version of the article is very similar to previous versions. A speedy deletion was recently declined, on the basis that this version is not identical to the previous ones; however, I believe the same notability issues apply. This article does not assert the significance of the organization, and I do not see sources here that would clearly meet the general notability guideline. -Pete (talk) 15:53, 31 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. — CutestPenguin^Hangout 16:08, 31 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of New York-related deletion discussions. — CutestPenguin^Hangout 16:09, 31 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom, no evidence that anything has changed since previous AfD's ps possible CoI of article creator. Pincrete (talk) 17:57, 31 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom; nothing for there to be a different result. Kierzek (talk) 18:10, 31 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom, and SALT to prevent page re-creation. Neutrality^talk 18:58, 31 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Delete — I don't have access to the deleted versions of the articles but maybe Sarek or someone else can point out what significant additions this new version includes.

The difference obvious to me is the news, announced the day before this article was created, that Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero was stepping down off the Spanish Council of State to take on a role as an unpaid advisor to the ICD. This news is referenced in the article with three citations to Spanish news articles all published the day before this article was re-created[1][2][3]. All three seem to be versions of the same Europa Press wire article[4]. The text of the Europa Press article (AFAICT, via Google Translate) doesn't do much to advance an argument under WP:ORG, IMHO. It includes little more than the standard blurb about the ICD and it's mission plus a list of other advisors. This seems to be a clear case of WP:INHERITORG — "An organization is not notable merely because a notable person or event was associated with it."

The first time we decided to delete this article, I was a little on the fence about the notability determination. Although I don't think we've crossed the threshold, I do think that time and recent events seems have helped the notability case. Ultimately though, I !voted to delete because the pattern of editing convinced me that the article was not capable of being maintained with a NPOV. Major issues included neutrality, deleted criticism, patterns that looked like COI editing by very enthusiastic single purpose accounts, etc. After I !voted to delete last time, my involvement resulted in a series of emailed legal threats. When I blogged about the whole saga (that link may be a good source of background) I got a nasty letter directly from the the ICD's lawyers in Berlin. Only after an enormous headache that ended with me getting pro-bono legal representation through the Harvard Law School Cyberlaw Clinic did things resolve themselves in the sense that the ICD and their lawyers simply went away.

The simultaneous creation of new articles in English, French, and Spanish (and German, now deleted?) by yet another new WP:SPA the day after the Zapetero news gives me no confidence that the problematic underlying pattern of editing has changed.

Given the coverage, the ICD certain should be mentioned in the article about Jose Zapatero. In terms of the article in question, I don't see how things have changed. Given the history, salting is probably appropriate so that we can have this conversation before the article is created yet again. —mako ๛ 21:01, 31 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

CSD#G4 is only for "A sufficiently identical and unimproved copy". In my view, the Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero information was sufficient to disqualify the use of this criteria. I have no particular opinion at this point about whether the article should be kept after discussion. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 17:46, 2 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Germany-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 15:58, 1 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Not sufficiently identical to the deleted versions (and, as an admin, I can check) for a WP:CSD#G4, but still not notable in itself. It seems that all sources are from the organization itself or from affiliated organizations of questionable notability or reliability. (I could be wrong, there. Perhaps one of the sources in another language is really from an independent source.) — Arthur Rubin (talk) 07:07, 3 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. What happened to the second nomination? Was the organization spelled differently? — Arthur Rubin (talk) 07:08, 3 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Based on Mako's blog post, it was re-created under "The Institute..." LaMona (talk) 18:38, 3 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The article has been deleted three times but I don't think there was a second AfD nomination and the third nomination should have been listed as the second. Beteween the first and third, the article was created as The Institute for Cultural Diplomacy but I moved it to Institute for Cultural Diplomacy before it was deleted under WP:CSD#G4 by Arthur Rubin without ever going to AfD. —mako ๛ 19:48, 3 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - I'm the editor that attempted to speedy delete the article. It may be different enough that another AfD is needed, but nothing in the article shows any notability whatsoever; the text may be different but the lack of notability hasn't changed. The article still fails to meet WP:GNG or WP:ORG. - Aoidh (talk) 20:35, 3 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Delete and salt as nom, per Benjamin Mako Hill's detailed analysis. -Pete (talk) 18:25, 4 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. All coverage revolves around Zapatero's appointment, except this HuffPost article. FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 19:46, 4 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Clarifications. This article is different from the previous articles because it includes significant additional coverage about the Institute for Cultural Diplomacy, which was published in secondary reliable sources that are independent. This additional information asserts the international significance of the organization, in general, and at the same time establishes notability for the organization, as it now meets the general notability guidelines, and passes the criteria of WP:GNG & WP:ORG.

The clarifications below includes a detailed description of the new significant coverage as well as clarifications regarding issues of deleted criticism, vandalism and patterns that this article is being edited by enthusiastic writers. It is important to point out that the clarifications includes references to articles written by German, Romanian, Italian and Spanish institutions, which stands by the criteria of the general notability guidelines, (“Sources do not have to be available online or written in English”), however in order to make it easier for the discussion, knowledge in these languages or a Google-translation are needed.

A. The first group of additional information includes numerous profile articles having been published about the Institute for Cultural Diplomacy by other reliable institutions and media organizations as one can find below.

A1. See an article about the foundations of the Institute for Cultural Diplomacy by Die Welt

(Welt.de - Diplomatie-auf-30-Quadratmetern . An interview with the founder of the institute. Retrieved 2003-04-26.)

A2. See a profile article about the Institute for Cultural Diplomacy by the Diplomat Magazine

(ICD the cultural organization. An article about the Institute for cultural Diplomacy in the Diplomatic Magazine. Retrieved 2015-01-15.)

A3. See a profile article about the Institute for Cultural Diplomacy by the Furtwangen University

(Institute for Cultural Diplomacy Organizational Profile. An organizational profile about the Institute for cultural Diplomacy published by Furtwangen University Retrieved 2015-04-02)

A4. See a profile article about the Institute for Cultural Diplomacy by the Berliner Tafel

(Volunteering Power House – the Institute for Cultural Diplomacy. An article about the volunteering activity of the Institute for Cultural Diplomacy at the Berliner Tafel e.V. Retrieved 2015-03-17)

B. The second difference is that the article includes references to the academic programs in cultural diplomacy, which are offered by the Institute for Cultural Diplomacy.

B1. See here an article about the joint-Master Programs with the Institute for Cultural Diplomacy published by Babes-Bolyai University

(Cultural Diplomacy and International Relations. An article about the joint academic programs offered by the Institute for Cultural Diplomacy and the Babes-Bolyai University.)

B2. See here an article about the joint-Master Programs with the Institute for Cultural Diplomacy published by Furtwangen University

(International Economics, Business & Cultural Diplomacy (Master) - Studiengänge Overview An article about the joint academic programs offered by the Institute for Cultural Diplomacy and the Furtwangen University. Retrieved 2015-06-25)

B3. See here an article about the joint-Master Programs with the Institute for Cultural Diplomacy published by Siena University

(Master program in Global Governance and Cultural Diplomacy An article about the joint academic programs offered by the Institute for Cultural Diplomacy and the Siena University.)

C. The third additional difference is that this article includes information about the establishment of the Berlin branch of the Babes-Bolyai University in partnership and within the Institute for Cultural Diplomacy in Berlin. This news development was covered in the Romanian press.

C1. See a news article about the opening of the branch written by the Transilvania Reporter

(UBB are campus universitar la Berlin (BBU has a campus in Berlin). An article about branch of the Babes-Bolyai University in partnership and within the Institute for Cultural Diplomacy in Berlin. Retrieved 2015-03-05)

C2. See a news article about the opening of the branch written by ClubAzi.ro

(Rectorul Ioan-Aurel Pop a inaugurat Campusul Universităţii Babeș-Bolyai de la Berlin (The Rector Ioan Aurel Pop inaugurated the campus of Babes-Bolyai (BBU) in Berlin). An article about branch of the Babes-Bolyai University in partnership and within the Institute for Cultural Diplomacy in Berlin. Retrieved 2015-03-05)

C3. See a news article about the opening of the branch written by the Ziua de Cluj:

(UBB invadează Germania. A inaugurat un campus la Berlin (UBB invades Germany. It opened a campus in Berlin) An article about branch of the Babes-Bolyai University in partnership and within the Institute for Cultural Diplomacy in Berlin. Retrieved 2015-03-05)

D. The fourth important new information is the news about José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero, who accepted a full-time paid position in the Institute for Cultural Diplomacy as President of its Advisory Board. This news, which was covered by over 100 Spanish media outlets, includes diverse references in different versions to the activities of the Institute for Cultural Diplomacy as well as leading individuals who are involved in the activities of the Institute for Cultural Diplomacy.

D1. See a news article about the new position of José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero by the El Confidencial Digital

(Zapatero cobrará por objetivos en la ONG alemana (Zapatero taking charge of the goals of the German NGO) An article about José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero becoming the President of the Advisory Board of the Institute for Cultural Diplomacy in Berlin. Retrieved 2015-07-30)

D2. See a news article about the new position of José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero by the ABC :

(El «poder blando» de Zapatero encuentra misión en Alemania (The "soft power" Zapatero is mission in Germany) An article about José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero becoming the President of the Advisory Board of the Institute for Cultural Diplomacy in Berlin. Retrieved 2015-08-01)

D3. See a news article about the new position of José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero by the Europa Press

(Zapatero deja temporalmente el Consejo de Estado para presidir el consejo asesor de una fundación alemana (Zapatero leaves temporarily the State Council to chair the advisory board of a German foundation) An article about José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero becoming the President of the Advisory Board of the Institute for Cultural Diplomacy in Berlin. Retrieved 2015-07-28)

These news about José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero, who during the time when he served as Prime Minister of Spain, initiated the creation of the United Nations Alliance of Civilizations, and who is now joining the Institute for Cultural Diplomacy (together with many other prominent figures who have already joined the institute), will influence the activities of the institution and therefore directly influence the development of the field of cultural diplomacy, while making the Institute for Cultural Diplomacy itself a significant player in the development of the field of cultural diplomacy.

It is important that this new position of José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero be mentioned in the Wikipedia pages of both José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero and cultural diplomacy.

The importance of the field of cultural diplomacy was recently described in an article of the British Council about the soft power, in 2013 where the Institute for Cultural Diplomacy was also mentioned (see page 7 of the article), which can be seen here:

http://www.britishcouncil.org/sites/britishcouncil.uk2/files/influence-and-attraction-report.pdf

This article (in page 7) also includes a part where it cites the creation of the Institute for Cultural Diplomacy in Berlin as a testament to growing interest and importance of the study and practice of cultural diplomacy in the world:

“In addition, over the past five years interest in cultural relations and cultural diplomacy has prompted the foundation of the Institute for Cultural Diplomacy in Berlin, the development of academic courses across the world, and a steady flow of conferences and events.”

E. Clarifications regarding WP:V, WP:NPOV, deleted criticism, patterns that this article is being edited by enthusiastic writers, and vandalism are provided also here.

E1. The article includes references, which uphold the standards of WP:NPOV, for the following reasons:

E1.1. The references, which were provided and chosen are including an overwhelming magnitude and diversity of media coverage about the same issue.

E1.2. The references that were provided and chosen are articles from diverse mix of reliable institutions that are covering the same issue, and the number of different references provided all together lowers the risk of a lack of neutrality.

E1.3. The references that were provided and chosen are pointing out simple facts without giving opinionated arguments (a fact that lowers the risk of WP:NPOV)

E2. Examples are provided below.

E2.1. For example, there is no dispute that the Institute for Cultural Diplomacy exists and is running conferences as the international conferences held by the institute and these events have been mentioned and described in over 100 press articles, which can be found in the Press Page of the Institute for Cultural Diplomacy, where the links to the original articles are provided and can be found below:

http://www.cd-n.org/index.php?en_icd-press.

From checking the website of the Institute for Cultural Diplomacy it looks like it provides a considerable amount of press coverage which includes links to the original articles themselves.

The Press article about the Armenia Economic Forum is one good example about the fact that the Institute for Cultural Diplomacy is running conferences.

See a news article published about the event the ICD will be hosting in Armenia by Panorama.

(Armenia to host international investment forum. An article about the event to be hosted by the ICD in Armenia in October 2015. Retrieved 2015-02-27)

In addition, the ICD YouTube channel includes over 1000 lectures about cultural diplomacy delivered by professionals. In addition one can find several TV reports about the international conferences held by the Institute for Cultural Diplomacy here.

E2.2. A second example is that the references in the article include the undisputed fact that the academic programs of the Institute for Cultural Diplomacy exist and the published articles of the academic institutions just confirm that they exist.

E2.3. Third example is the undisputed fact that the Berlin branch of the Babes-Bolyai University exists, as it is mentioned in numerous Romanian media outlets.

E2.4. In addition there is no dispute about the news about José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero.

E.3 Conclusion. Therefore issues of WP:V, WP:NPOV, deleted criticism, patterns that this article is being edited by enthusiastic writers, or vandalism do not apply to this article.Diplomaciacultural (talk) 10:24, 5 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

“Jimbo” Wales. Since 2012, the article of the Institute for Cultural Diplomacy was deleted three times already and is now nominated for deletion for the a fourth time.

It would be most helpful in this case to get personal advice from “Jimbo” Wales and other editors on this important issue, so the discussions will be thorough, neutral and constructive.

A message was just left for “Jimbo” Wales.(Diplomaciacultural (talk) 11:14, 5 August 2015 (UTC))[reply]