Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2014 AFC Challenge Cup Group A

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Delate all, largely via WP:NOTSTATS. Note: WT:ATA, while an essay, contains useful advice relevant to some of the arguments on which I've assigned lower weight. j⚛e decker ^talk 01:27, 25 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

2014 AFC Challenge Cup Group A

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The AFC Challenge Cup is just only a minor tournament. I believe there should be no main article covering each stage except the finals and squads page. Fairy Tail Rocks 02:22, 31 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: I am also nominating the following related pages and the past revisions of the tournament because of the reason above:

Oppose - The information is already there, it's useful information for those with an interest. There's no need for it to be merged. TheBigJagielka (talk) 12:13, 31 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Then if we do that the AFC President's Cup should have an article about the group and knockout stages. The President's Cup and Challenge Cup are just the same when it comes to the "emerging countries" in Asia, the only difference is that the President's cup is competed under clubs while the Challenge Cup is under national teams. Major tourneys like the Asian Cup, AFC Cup and AFC Champions League are qualified to deserve an article about its stages. Fairy Tail Rocks 12:37, 31 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Support - The Challenge Cup serves as part of the Asian Cup qualification. Qualification tournaments (or same level tournaments) do not deserve such detailed record. 128.189.191.60 (talk) 12:20, 31 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I'm undecided on the issue, but we do have separate articles for each "stage" of qualification, and if the qualification stage features a "group stage", separate articles for groups are also created. If we're using this argument, it's actually an argument for keeping the article. –H T D 13:41, 31 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, so what's the point of having AfD? If you are talking about the FIFA World Cup qualification, of course each qualifying stage has its own article because it is very large and they are competing in one of the most prestigious tournaments in the world. I'm here to raise the issue so that the others know if they agree with me or not. Also those articles I've proposed originally were never created, one user published all of it in May 2014. Fairy Tail Rocks 14:56, 31 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The point was if anyone's making this "Qualification tournaments (or same level tournaments) do not deserve such detailed record" argument, it could be an argument for retention, not deletion. If you're looking at this competition solely as a qualification tournament instead of a "championship", then the best analogy would be looking if other continental cup qualification stages have their own articles. Do they? European championship qualification each have pages for each group in the first "group" round, and another for the qualifying playoffs; Asian and African championship qualification have their matches all in one page, and not split in many daughter articles. World Cup qualifying already has each stage and each group on a separate articles for all continents. –H T D 21:07, 31 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Because European qualifying stages like UEFA Euro 2012 qualifying are very large with nine groups playing ten times before going to the main tournament. In this case, the tournament has only two groups and a knockout stage, merging the results is the best option here. If they want more statistics of each games there is a match report under the results. Fairy Tail Rocks 08:17, 1 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I need to clarify myself. I am not against a page for a group, what I am against is the details level of this page. As a qualifying-level tournament, line-ups for each match is probably excessive. If one removes the line-ups, then everything is already covered in the main article. Thus this article should be deleted. 128.189.191.60 (talk) 20:20, 1 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not disputing your reasoning, but I figured the fact that there hasn't been a separate article per group in "regular qualifying" was that this wasn't yet the norm back in 2010, at least as far as football tournament articles outside Europe are concerned. With that said, a per-match line-up truly is excessive; if the articles gonna be kept, perhaps discipline could be figured in to the match boxes, and prose, while the main articles could stick only to the scores so the reader can expect something "more" if he'd go here. –H T D 22:31, 2 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - as the one who started most of these articles I just want to give my opinion of why I feel these articles should be kept on Wikipedia. Correct me if I am wrong but User:FairyTailRocks, User:ArsenalFan700, and User talk:128.189.191.60's main objections are that the AFC Challenge Cup is a minor tournament that doesn't require all the detail to go into the individual stages of the tournament. My counter-argument would be that sure the AFC Challenge Cup might not be the most noticeable tournament, but it still revives plenty of attention, especially this year's edition which was the last ever edition of the tournament. Just because a few wikipedians do not find it interesting does not establish grounds to delete these articles. Sure most people haven't heard of the IRB Pacific Nations Cup, but one wikipedian took the initiative to elaborate and add more detail and line ups because there was significant sources. Secondly the fact that the AFC Challenge Cup serves as qualification for the AFC Asian Cup does not mean that the AFC Challenge Cup is not a tournament that has to meet FIFA tournament requirements and deserves the same attention tournaments deserve on Wikipedia. If you want to get REALLY technically about this detail than by the same logic we shouldn't go into detail about the AFC Asian Cup, CONCACAF Gold Cup, Copa América, OFC Nations Cup, UEFA European Championship and the FIFA World Cup just serve as qualification for the FIFA Confederations Cup. Lastly there were many websites and blogs that followed this tournament and I tried to include as many of these as sources in these articles. The match reports came from AFC's own web site and are both detailed and credible. This establishes WP:GNG and WP:NFOOTBALL, which are the two main standpoints when seeing if an article pertaining to football should be deleted. I will be the first to acknowledge the fact that the AFC Challenge Cup isn't the most followed tournament on the planet, but in its five editions it has had an enormous impact in developing Asian football and thoroughly deserves the extra detail and articles that are now being nominated for deletion.Inter&anthro (talk) 02:33, 2 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. • Gene93k (talk) 12:55, 31 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Asia-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 12:55, 31 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 12:55, 31 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 12:55, 31 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: The AFC Challenge Cup is a small tournament which serves as the final and only path for qualification to the AFC Asian Cup for development countries. All this tournament deserves/needs is the page for whatever edition it is, the final match page, squad page, and a qualification page... nothing more. Squads for each match can be found in the AFC reports. Cheers. --ArsenalFan700 (talk) 18:41, 31 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Delete all - massive WP:NOTSTATS violations. These articles detail only squad lists and results. Claims above that references to AFC website establish notability are incorrect as these are primary sources. Absolutely no sourced prose whatsoever and no indication that any of these groups garnered significant reliable coverage beyond WP:ROUTINE match reporting to warrant such a fork. Bar the squad lists, there is nothing in any of these articles that is not already covered word for word in the main 2014 AFC Challenge Cup article. Essentially WP:CRUFT. Fenix down (talk) 06:49, 3 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

How is that different form another type of group stage in another type of tournament? I don't see anything wrong with the sources having the lineups and stats and the page having the lineups and stats. As long as the sources are properly referenced(which they are in these articles). Are we just suppose to make this information up? If one were to look at the group stage of any of the FIFA World Cup tournaments they would find the same set of circumstances. According to this logic then the group stage of ever tournament should be deleted. While the match reports are secondary sources all the articles from the 2014 AFC Challenge Cup also include secondary sources, primarily from Maldives Soccer.com.Inter&anthro (talk) 18:53, 3 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Delete all - per WP:NOTSTATS. Giant Snowman 18:55, 3 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, slakr^\ talk / 02:41, 13 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Delete all per WP:NOTSTATS. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 15:34, 21 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect all - If the stats from each match were removed, I believe there would be no reason to delete. However, there would be no reason to keep them either if the same information is already provided. Therefore, redirecting all of these articles would seem like a better idea. --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 19:44, 21 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
move content of player lists of each match to 2014 AFC Challenge Cup. Its a moderately sized article and if drop down boxes can be installed then if could would work well. Having previously been religious and having spent a lot of time in the "Holy land" I was pleased to find this page ... but had no interest in player lists. Gregkaye (talk) 16:06, 22 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

That would still violate WP:NOTSTATS. To the above, redirecting makes no sense since the whole of these article titles will never a search term, and the "parent" article is already the shorter form that is most likely to be used. No value in it. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 16:12, 22 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.