Talk:Wang Jingwei regime
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This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): CompanionPrism. Peer reviewers: Pyyyd.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 12:37, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
These massive edits smell like copyvio, but I haven't found it. Anyone else have an idea? Wikibofh 05:16, 8 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
information for your knowledge.i agreed with your negative andpositive comments and recomendations.
reiterrally i see very little information of nanjing state,and theinfo why poses proceded no of web site,without of old photocopyof lamentably lost book in library.i making these copy(why nostay in english too) and obtain these information for yours.
Sorry to say it, but the original author is *NOT* doing his best. If he was doing his best, he would contribute to Spanish wikipedia. Also, he would read neutral books on Japanese history and not extreme-right webpages. -- Mkill 01:21, 30 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I cleaned up the introduction to more clearly summarize the article. Some significant copyediting should improve the readibility significantly. I'd like feedback on some suggestions:
Concerns:
Tobycat 00:20, 9 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Please leave the stats for the moment. I'm sure they are not just made up, and in the end we can find the source (there is a large bibliography posted on another page). The material may need moving around to get the article to cohere. I'm reluctant just to cut things out. You could move some sections temporarily to this page. Charles Matthews 10:59, 9 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Stimate User:
respect at stability of resident numbers,farmings,mining,and other cyphers mentioned,is very clear why are proceded from previous statistics population,farmings and other cypher research,previous at conflict,in your majority. other numbers proceded from sources howFar East Year Book(1941),Chinese Interior Affairs minister,American and foreing researches before and during wartimes and other sources.
ow you sayed if totally correct why these cypher are more stably for sitaution in China during war,but for less givingone approximate(no totally exact,still the stastistic debt exact and reality in your dates,) about population. if no count other factorshow massive diseases,food scarcies,inundations,etc why can to reducedthe numbers of population and farmings possiblities in areas.
reiterrally if approximate,one idea about how stay population in area.in wartimes if difficult obtain real dates of population for thesituation in area.
for exact details if one point for cominzed one profoundly investigation at respect.
I've brought this up before, and I hate to do it again, but I can't find a single reference to the Wang Jingwei government as "Cochinchina" anywhere on the web or in print, except as a copy of a Wikipedia page. The Japanese and Chinese articles both call it the "Wang Jingwei regime". I find lots of hits on the web for "Wang Jingwei regime", "Nanjing regime" and related structures.
I'd really like to see a bibliographic reference to the use of this name. It certainly isn't the most common name in English, Chinese or Japanese for the occupation regime. I think this article should be moved to "Wang Jingwei government" to fit what seems to be the most common maniker for it. If there really are people who call it Cochinchina, the article should say so. But, giving the article an obscure title that is neither what it called itself, nor what other people called or currently call it, just doesn't make sense.
--Diderot 2 July 2005 12:22 (UTC)
Cochinchina is a part of southern Vietnam. The Cochinchina State redirect is confusing. I too have never heard of Cochinchina used to describe this government. "Cochin" doesnt sound like any Chinese word nor does it sound like a transliteration of Chinese.--Countakeshi 13:12, 28 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Ah,como dije en una ocasion,en las discusiones hay detodo,a veces es bueno,otras veces no.yo podria escribir en ingles,pero he preferidohacerlo en mi idioma nativo,y el de mi conocidoque ya se fue,el Español:
lamentablemente,no soy el autor de este articulosoy unicamente un amigo y humilde ayudante quecolaboro prestando la PC para escribir y enviarla informacion relacionada.el autor como noesta presente,entonces yo tomare la palabraen su defensa.
Miren,sobre la verdaderamente dudosa cuestion del nombre del"estado" que administro el lider chino-projapones de Wang Chingwei,llamado "Cochinchina" dire algunas cosas,que ojala mi amigo hubierapodido haber dicho,en mas detalle:
este nombre, conozco perfectamente que es muysimilar a una region del sur de indochina,y yoantes pensaba que Japon habia organizado algun"estado" con ese nombre en esa region.pues resultaal parecer que bajo esta denominacion en variasfuentes de informacion(Libros,enciclopedias) sereferian al estado creado por los Japoneses enNanking y areas cercanas,o sea la efimera "nacion"dirigida por Wang Chingwei.por ejemplo en un librode aviacion "Combat Aircraft of World War Two"(Arm & Armour Press,London) se menciona que enel apartado de Japon que este pais durante laguerra,proporciono aviones a las Fuerzas aereasaliadas de Manchukuo,Thailandia(Siam) y Cochinchina,no precisamente el sector de Indochina,se referianal una Arma Aerea titere organizada por Japonen el estado de Wang Chingwei,en otro libro sobreJapon,en un articulo llamado "East Asia and SecondWorld War"(P.93-103)" en la seccion "Social andEconomical Transformations"(P.94-96) se mencionaque Japon compraba a muy bajo costo el arrozde Siam,Birmania y Cochinchina,o sea que el estadode nuestro estimado amigo Wang Chingwei aparecede nuevo,pero en los aspectos economicos de Japon.
Otro recuerdo que tengo y posee relacion coneste asunto,es que mis abuelos me relataronque durante las decadas de los 30s y 40s,tenian amistad con una familia de pescadoresJaponeses.entre las cosas que mis abuelosdecian es que lo mas lejos estaba en la"Cochinchina" y cuando pregunte me dijeron:"los amigos japoneses ,les comentaron queJapon tenia una nacion amiga llamada asi".por tanto esto es otra mencion adicional del estado Pro-Japones de Wang Chingwei.
y asi he encontrado varias otras fuentes militaresy politicas o economicas que hacen referenciaal estado Por-Japones de Nanking bajo estenombre "oscuro" de Cochinchina,por tantodeduzco que esa ha sido alguna denominacionalternativa ademas de la conocida de "EstadoPro-Japones de Nanking" y otras que aparecenen el articulo de mi amigo.
es una verdadera lastima que mi amigo,eljapones-peruano no haya podido contestarle,como el habia profundizado mas en estamateria,el pudo haberle dado mayores explicaciones acerca de esta "oscura" cuestion.para mi basta con darles estas mencioneshistoricas,pero reitero,existen otra masen otras fuentes,que como no tengoa mano en casa no puedo citarlas.
Pedro GonzalesUn filo-japones convencido enLatinoamerica.
I attach a babelfish translation of the above from Spanish to English: its not perfect, but certainly a little more comprehensible.
Ah, as I said in an occasion, the discussions has of everything, sometimes is good, other times no. I podria to write in ingles, but have preferred to do it in my native language, and the one of my well-known that already went away, the Spanish: lamentably, I am not the author of this I articulate I am only a friend and humble assistant who I collaborate lending the PC to write and to send the information relacionada.el author like not this present, then I I will take the word in its defense. Watch, on the truely doubtful question of the del"estado name" that I administer Chinese lider projapones of Wang Chingwei, "Cochinchina" dire some detail but call things, that ojala my friend could have had saying,: this name, I know perfectly that he is very similar to a region of the indochina south, and I before thought that Japon habia organized algun "been" with that name in that region.pues is apparently that under this denomination in several sources of informacion(Libros, enciclopedias) is referian to the state created by Japanese in Nanking and the near areas, that is the efimera "nation" directed by Wang Chingwei.por example in a book from aviacion "Combat Aircraft of World War Two" (Arm & Armour Press, London) is mentioned that in the section of Japon that this pais during the war, I provide airplanes to the allied aerial Forces of Manchukuo, an Aerial Weapon titere organized by Japon in the state of Wang Chingwei, in another book on Japon, in I articulate call "East Asia and Second World War"(P.93-103) "in the Social section" and Economical Transformations"(P.94-96) is mentioned that Japon bought to very low cost the rice of Siam, Burma and Cochinchina, that is that the state of ours dear friend Wang Chingwei appears again, but in the economicos aspects of Japon. Another memory which I have and has relation with this subject, is that my grandparents related to me that during decadas of 30s and 40s, the things tenian friendship with a family of Japoneses.entre fishermen that my grandparents decian is that but far he was in the "Cochinchina" and when asks said to me: "the Japanese friends, commented to them that Japon tapeworm a nation called friend asi". therefore this is another additional mention of the state Pro-Japones de Wang Chingwei. and asi I have found several other military and politicas or economicas sources that make reference to the state By-Japones de Nanking under this "dark" name of Cochinchina, therefore I deduce that that has been some alternative denomination ademas of the well-known one of "State Pro-Japones de Nanking" and other that they appear in I articulate of my friend. she is a true one hurts that my friend, the japones-Peruvian has not been able to answer to him, like habia deepened but in this matter, could have given greater expli caciones to him about this "dark" question for my coarse one with giving these historicas mentions them, but I reiterate, exist other but in other sources, that as I do not have by hand in house I cannot mention them. Pedro Gonzales an edge-japones convinced in Latinoamerica.
Here's a looser, but more fluent translation (I have no way of verifying anything he says -- I just translated it because the babelfish translation was just horrible, and I can read Spanish - I guess it would help if people could figure out what he was talking about). --Franchin 09:40, August 22, 2005 (UTC)
Ah, as I have said previously, in the discussions to date, sometimes it is good, sometimes not. I would like to write in English, but preferred to write in my native language, the one that I know the best, Spanish. Lamentably, I am not the author - I state that I am only a friend and humble assistant to the author, whom I collaborate with by lending the computer to write and send the related information. The author is not here, so I take a few words to defend him. See, on the truly dubious question of the name of the state that I gave for the pro-Japanese Chinese leader Wang Chingwei - "Cochinchina", that I may have heard my friend say something else: I know perfectly well that the name is very similar to [the name of] a region of southern Indochina, and I before thought that Japan had organized some "state" with that name in the region. Then, apparently under this name in several sources of information (books, encyclopedias), it refers to the state created by the Japanese in Nanking and surrounding areas, that is the ephemeral "nation" lead by Wang Chingwei. For example, in a book on aviation called "Combat Aircraft of World War Two" (Arm & Armour Press, London), it is mentioned in the section on Japan that this nation during the war provided airplanes to the allied Air Forces of Manchuria, Thailand(Siam) and Cochinchina, not exactly the region of Indochina, a decoy Air Wing organized by Japan in Wang Chingwei's state. In another book on Japan, I had said was called "East Asia and Second World War"(P.93-103) in the chapter "Social and Economical Transformations" (P.94-96), it is mentioned that Japan bought at a very low cost the rice of Siam, Burma and Cochinachina; our friend Wang Chingwei's state appears again, but in economic terms in Japan. What I remember about this topic is that my grandparents told me that during the 1930s and 1940s, they were friends with a Japanese fishing family. Among the things my grandparents said was that they [the Japanese fishing family] were deep in "Cochinchina", and when I asked, they told me, "the Japanese friends, they commented to them that Japan had a so-called "friendly nation", which was another name for the pro-Japanese state of Wan Chingwei. And so I have found several other military, political, and economic sources that make reference to the pro-Japanese state of Nanking under this obscure name of Cochinchina; therefore, I deduce that there have been alternative names for the well-known "pro-Japanese State of Nanking" and others that I have stated for my friend. It is truly a shame that my friend, a Peruvian Japanese, has not been able to reply to me, as he has a deeper knowledge of this material, and can explain better about this "obscure" question, instead of my rough explainations, citing the historical references that mention them, but I reiterate, that exist in other sources that I do not have on hand in my house, and so I cannot cite them.
Pedro Gonzales, an avant-garde Japanese [I think he means a first-generation Issei Japanese?] located in Latin America.
I gave my shot at improving the focus and flow of the introduction, front-loading the five w's. There is an ambiguity I may have compounded into error - in some wiki references, March 29 establishes the government, March 30 establishes the new head of state - could it be one date for both? Duncan Delp 07:09, 3 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
If someone can rewrite this information so that it is intelligible, fine. Otherwise the heading and the gibberish that ensues should be deleted from the article. RogerK 22:49, 25 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I know I risk ruining another article, but we have another article on the topic: Dadao government (Shanghai 1937-1940). As always, when Japanese-Chinese relations are discussed in Wikipedia, one article is from the Japanese side, and one from the Chinese side. Well, all the guys who love to improve our Latin friends articles, have fun with the merge. -- Mkill 01:21, 30 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Dadao govt is not the same as Wang Jingwei govt. --Sumple (Talk) 22:19, 13 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
In the "Incidents" (battles) listed, Chinese armies are listed as being commanded by Japanese officers. Is this because (1) yes, they were commanded by Japanese officers, or (2) the material is cited from or by a Japanese source/editor who transliterated Chinese names using Japanese pronunciation, or (3) they are actually commanders of Japanese forces and not Chinese ones? This article needs a bit of work. --Sumple (Talk) 23:51, 12 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I'm against the move from Wang Jingwei regime to ROC (Nanajing), because this can be confusing to many just by reading the topic name alone. First of all, ROC (Nanjing), is this the ROC ruled by the Kuomintang when it defeated the Beiyang warlords and moved the capital to Nanjing in 1928, as opposed to the collaborationist regime established in 1940? If you go on any library search engine and type ROC Nanjing, you won't find anything on the puppet regime, but you'll get plenty if you type in Wang Jingwei regime/puppet/collaborationist government. The title "Wang Jingwei regime" doesn't sound "formal" is not good enough a reason for such a move. Blueshirts (talk) 12:59, 29 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Wang Jingwei died in 1944, however this state lasted more than him, so calling it "Wang Jingwei regime" or "Wang Jingwei Government" is surely uncorrect. We all know we couldn't name it Republic Of China: it was its real name, but it is confusing and will probably led to protests by chinese editors. Names such as Republic of China-Nanjing, Nanjing regime and Nanjing Nationalist Government are confusing too for obvious reason. So i propose: Reorganized National Government of China (which is the other official name of the state) or Collaborationist China. I prefer the first one, because its an official name. What do you think? --AndreaFox2 (talk) 19:28, 14 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
As no one protested, I'll change the page name. --AndreaFox2 (talk) 17:40, 18 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
During the Republican Era, the ROC used Postal Romanization, not Hanyu Pinyin, for romanization of location names for administrative purposes (e.g. Nanking, Foochow, Chungking, etc); hence the name of the ROC would be Chunghwa Minkuo, i.e. in parallel with Chunghwa Post, Chunghwa Telecom, etc. This also matches with the namesake of Manchukuo. The Hanyu Pinyin pronunciation is already present within the lede anyway, for those interested in how the characters should be pronounced in the modern day. -- 李博杰 | —Talk contribs email 05:55, 24 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
How do we change the caption link below the Coat of Arms to Blue Sky and White Sun? the link currently links to the PRC State Emblem.78.149.244.175 (talk) 12:29, 30 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Isn't it a government, not a state, it is a government, I am proposing to redo the infobox.Linguiyi (talk) 19:56, 17 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
It seems to me that a considerable amount of this information is either too overly specific to be of use, or information that would also be applicable to any other government that controlled the same territory. As it stands, this section feels like an extensive amount of filler. I would be interested in discussing the relevant tactical or strategic considerations these statistics brought to bear in official business, but otherwise would move to remove the section entirely. CompanionPrism (talk) 14:54, 9 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Missing from this page seems to be any reference to the aftermath of the war and the later trials of collaborationists affiliated with the Regime by both the ROC and PRC. At least a small "Legacy" section could do wonders for increasing the usefulness of this page. CompanionPrism (talk) 14:57, 9 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Shouldn't the link of the word flag lead to Flags of the Reorganized National Government of China?