Talk:Mike Sievert
Latest comment: 14 days ago by SafariScribe in topic June 2024 COI edit request
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Disclosing COI
I, the author of the initial draft of this page, have a COI: I work for a communications agency for which T-Mobile US is a client. I'm happy to help with any feedback about how to ensure this article is neutral and has encyclopedic value. I want to ensure I am transparent throughout the process of getting this article reviewed for a move to mainspace. Many thanks. Mary Gaulke (talk) 21:32, 9 December 2019 (UTC)
COI edit request
Hi! I'm the author of the initial draft of this article, and as disclosed above, I have a COI: T-Mobile US is a client of my employer. I'd like to request two updates to the second paragraph of this article: 1) removing Qualcomm (the source cited on that is inaccurate), and 2) rearranging in chronological order. Here's the rewrite; the only substantive changes are removing Qualcomm and adding another ref for Clearwire to clarify timelines. The first ref name below is already in use in the article, hence why it's blank here.
- Sievert started his career at Procter & Gamble. He subsequently worked at IBM[1] and then as executive vice president (EVP) and chief global marketing and sales officer at E-Trade.[2][3] From 2002 to 2005, Sievert was EVP and CMO of AT&T Wireless.[4] He joined Microsoft's Global Windows Group as CVP of product management in 2005, leading preparations for the release of Longhorn (later called Windows Vista).[5][2] In 2008 he co-founded Switchbox Labs,[4] a startup acquired by Lenovo in 2009.[6] He was the Chief Commercial Officer of Clearwire until 2011[7][8] and CEO of tablet gaming company Discovery Bay Games until 2012.[9] In 2012, John Legere, T-Mobile's then-new CEO, hired Sievert as CMO.[10]
Due to my COI, I won't be making any edits directly. Thanks for your time/help! Mary Gaulke (talk) 23:48, 17 January 2020 (UTC)
- Please note that any text to be removed from the article needs to be included with the request. For example, say an editor wishes to correct the article on the Sun, which incorrectly states that its diameter is 25 miles in length. The text below shows how a request to add information would not be implemented — because it would create a circumstance where both the incorrect and correct information would exist in the same article:
Sample edit request |
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If the claim above is added to the article, the article would then state that the diameter is both 25 miles and 864,337 miles in length. That is because the text which states that the diameter is 25 miles was not requested to be removed. The editor could make assumptions about what needs to be removed, but that is ultimately not their prerogative. The COI editor needs to make those directions clear. The correct way to request a substitution would look like this:
As you can see from the second box above, the incorrect 25 miles claim has been stated as needing to be removed. Thus, the requested text can be added without creating a contradiction with two different measurements in the article. |
- The COI editor is asked to include this missing information in their request. This should be posted below in a new edit request.
- Additionally, this information would be best organized as a list displaying the positions held, at which company, and the dates only. That is because all of these sources are ultimately based on press releases. It is not independent writers who are reporting on this information of their own accord and at their own undertaking, it is the subject himself — or more directly, those individuals who craft the company press releases in consultation with the subject — who are writing the subject's work-history narrative. If the reader is to be made aware of the subject's job history, that history should spontaneously be reported on by independent, reliable sources who are discussing it because of some relevant and notable reason (i.e., the company never had the position before, or the subject starting work somewhere and it became a watershed moment due to the work performed by the subject — work which would naturally merit reporting from a reliable, independent source). Instead, this type of press release-sourced type information is clearly just WP:RESUME material — and if has to be added, it really needs to occupy the smallest footprint possible within the article.
Regards, Spintendo 04:18, 18 January 2020 (UTC)
Request edit
- Thank you for the detailed answer. As noted above, the only substantive changes to the current article are removing Qualcomm and tweaking the order in which current elements of the article are stated. For the former, proving a negative is tough, but you can see that Qualcomm is included neither in Bloomberg's biography of Sievert, nor in his LinkedIn profile. Per WP:BLP, I want to be clear about correcting an inaccuracy. Mary Gaulke (talk) 15:40, 20 January 2020 (UTC)
"I want to be clear about correcting an inaccuracy."
"I'd like to request two updates to the second paragraph of this article: 1) removing Qualcomm (the source cited on that is inaccurate)"
- In the statements above, #2 does not deliver #1. That's because it's not known what is meant by the phrase "removing Qualcomm". That is a bit like someone saying they want to "remove Jack in The Box" where I would then ask, what is it about Jack in The Box they want removed? The menu? The physical location of a store? The statement is too conceptually bizarre to understand. Qualcomm removed... removed from what? The word Qualcomm? If a word is removed, what happens to the sentence that the
deleted wordwas in? Is the word blanked, with a "_____" inserted within the sentence? It would seem strange to have a word removed like that, and I don't see how that is what you're asking for — and yet, that is quite literally what you've asked for —"removing Qualcomm"
.
- Thank you for the detailed answer. As noted above, the only substantive changes to the current article are removing Qualcomm and tweaking the order in which current elements of the article are stated. For the former, proving a negative is tough, but you can see that Qualcomm is included neither in Bloomberg's biography of Sievert, nor in his LinkedIn profile. Per WP:BLP, I want to be clear about correcting an inaccuracy. Mary Gaulke (talk) 15:40, 20 January 2020 (UTC)
- Is what you're trying to say that you'd like to remove a claim made in the article about the subject's relationship with Qualcomm? By leaving out that statement's qualifiers, it appears you're wanting to take a shortcut, and I appreciate all attempts to save time (really I do) but you've lost me here.
- If you mean for one type of edit to occur, the words asking for that edit need to align perfectly with the meaning. An editor who does not say what they mean, will never mean what they say. When you give the verbatim text to be removed, none of those questions about what is asked to be done versus what is meant to be done are needed to be raised.
- So I would again ask that the verbatim changes be included: for substituted text, that would mean both deleted text and substituted (or "added in place of") type-text. The perfect request would have both versions, side by side, with the changes (or substitutions) highlighted - but I understand that's a level of methodical deliberateness not all COI editors are comfortable with (perhaps only those who are paid by the hour). But Rome wasn't built in a day. I look forward to your revisions, and will handle them with all due haste. Regards, Spintendo 12:46, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
- I had previously been instructed to keep edit requests brief ("100 words or fewer"), hence my previous attempt at concision. Yes, I am requesting that the single word "Qualcomm" be deleted from a sentence listing Sievert's previous employers, and not that the concept of Qualcomm be deleted from existence, as I don't believe that is something of which Wikipedia is capable. To put it in your format:
- I have previously assimilated your feedback to create marked up versions of my requests, and done so assiduously (e.g. 1 and 2). Marking up a paragraph where information is rearranged with little being deleted or added is trickier, but if it's helpful, here's a side-by-side comparison:
- So I would again ask that the verbatim changes be included: for substituted text, that would mean both deleted text and substituted (or "added in place of") type-text. The perfect request would have both versions, side by side, with the changes (or substitutions) highlighted - but I understand that's a level of methodical deliberateness not all COI editors are comfortable with (perhaps only those who are paid by the hour). But Rome wasn't built in a day. I look forward to your revisions, and will handle them with all due haste. Regards, Spintendo 12:46, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
| Current article text | Proposed revision |
|---|---|
| Sievert started his career at Procter & Gamble.[1] He subsequently worked at IBM | Sievert started his career at Procter & Gamble. He subsequently worked at IBM[1] and then as executive vice president (EVP) and chief global marketing and sales officer at E-Trade.[5][6] From 2002 to 2005, Sievert was EVP and CMO of AT&T Wireless.[8] He joined Microsoft's Global Windows Group as CVP of product management in 2005, leading preparations for the release of Longhorn (later called Windows Vista).[12][5] In 2008 he co-founded Switchbox Labs,[8] a startup acquired by Lenovo in 2009.[13] He was the Chief Commercial Officer of Clearwire until 2011[14][15] and CEO of tablet gaming company Discovery Bay Games until 2012.[16] In 2012, John Legere, T-Mobile's then-new CEO, hired Sievert as CMO.[17] |
- I assure you that I am constantly absorbing your feedback about how to make these requests easier to review and implement, and I will continue to do so. I understand that your time is valuable and I strive to make this process as efficient as possible. Mary Gaulke (talk) 18:56, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
Reply 21-JAN-2020
- Thank you for the side-by-side comparison, it is much appreciated.
The request to remove the word Qualcomm cannot be implemented because a source exists which verifies its inclusion.
The request to add the information concerning Clearwire could not be implemented because it contains an end date without a starting date.[a]
- As for the request to keep edit requests down to "100 words or less", I don't know where you heard that from, but it's not from any of the guidance materials I'm familiar with. The notion that someone would have to limit the words they use to describe an edit request's reasoning (or does the proposed verbatim text also count towards the 100 word limit?) is odd. Who's to say you couldn't submit 3 edit requests all under 100 words. I would think clarity is more important than quantity.
Regards, Spintendo 05:30, 22 January 2020 (UTC)
- @Spintendo: Thanks! Re: item 1 – is it at all valuable that my client can testify that that source is inaccurate? Again, I know proving a negative is tough, but every other full history of Sievert's career omits Qualcomm. Feels a shame to leave inaccurate information in the article when we can avoid it. Again, thanks! Mary Gaulke (talk) 05:03, 29 January 2020 (UTC)
Request edit
Update! The editor of the source publication has corrected the article, so it no longer mentions Qualcomm. This means the source no longer verifies the claim. Thanks! Mary Gaulke (talk) 18:54, 29 January 2020 (UTC)
- It's a shame that the author of the article, Mr. Sherman, decided to hide his error by deleting the Qualcomm claim without first describing its retraction along with his apology for its being mentioned. This source, as it has shown to be problematic, has been removed.
- In another claim supported by the now-removed reference, three separate sources were used, ostensibly because the claim statements could not be made without the inclusion of all three. As one has been removed, the other two cannot hold the weight of the missing third[a] — thus the claim has been omitted. Regards, Spintendo 00:50, 3 February 2020 (UTC)
