Talk:High jump/Archive 1
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The link to the Fosbury Flop (high jump technique) now goes to a Dutch music group with that name. They have made a page with an already existing name... Who can fix that? 217.149.204.176 17:29, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
I notice that the graph on men's high jump records over time does not have a zero point for the y axis (jump height). This serves to magnify and draw attention to the upward trend in jump heights. However, graphs which use this method should generally include a note that they have been cropped to provide additional detail, to avoid misleading the reader. (Such graphs, for instance, are widely used by political hucksters and other scam artists for misleading purposes). Shouldn't we add such a note? Kasreyn 04:20, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
There seems to be an ad in the links. Does anyone agree with me on that? Should it be deleted? 24.211.218.200 13:39, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
Is 2.50 meters possible? Three meters? How high does a roo jump? No info on those in the article. 195.70.32.136 14:44, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
The introduction says that Sotomayor is the indoor world record holder with 2.43, but the "Men (indoor)" section lists Thränhardt as number one with 2.42??? 67.8.55.66 (talk) 15:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Can anybody confirm the GBR national record held by this woman? I'm just curious, because 2.05 is quite high, and you'd think you'd find some information about an athlete by that name if you just typed it into Google. But nothing. --Flosch (talk) 20:25, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
1. For the men, both indoor and outdoor records are mentioned. For women there's only Kostadinova' outdoor record but Bergqvist's indoor record is missing.
2. For the women the record itself is missing (the height).
Can anyone fix this? Thanks Kvsh5 (talk) 07:40, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
There should be a section describing formats for competition - how many attempts people get at each height, how and when the bar moves up, etc. 24.115.47.16 (talk) 03:42, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
Does anyone know about more recent history of the sport. I'm most curious why there is such a decline in the heights athletes jump nowadays. With the exception of Voronin in 2000, the highest recent jumps are at 2.38; what is going on? 77.4.102.58 (talk) 21:31, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
Are there standards, such as how far apart the uprights are placed? How is a competition conducted? What are the rules? What governs when the bar is raised, and by how much? 206.53.196.75 (talk) 14:37, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
This article reads nothing like an encyclopedia. Someone (I if I have time?) should try to address that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 221.221.149.61 (talk) 09:10, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
Joefaust (talk) 03:31, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
Danielle Frenkel is the right spelling, see her facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/danielle.frenkel —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.102.184.171 (talk) 19:24, 3 July 2010 (UTC)
Try sorting these wikitables, they will get messed up. Can someone fix it? Pelmeen10 (talk) 21:39, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
Can someone block user 129.29.227.4? I understand that it is the IP address for the United States Military Academy, but they have had a history of vandalism. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.56.193.143 (talk) 22:59, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
It would be nice to clarify the rules explicitly regarding this question: can a competitor who has already won keep jumping to try for a record?—172.56.37.62 (talk) 07:59, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
The lead section is currently highly confusing. There needs to be a distinction made between on one hand the history of high jumping and on the other hand today's competitive jumping and its rules. Also, the records mentioned are recognised by who? (IAAF). And also the Rules section; whose rules? (IAAF). --83.255.55.91 (talk) 16:35, 9 March 2015 (UTC)
We have discussions about the policy going on at Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)/Archive 121#MOS:IDENTITY clarification and about the other usages of Jenner's identity at Talk:Caitlyn Jenner. There is a lot of discussion to read at both locations. Trackinfo (talk) 03:18, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
There are sources saying Paklin took 2.35 on his second attempt and Avdeyenko on his third attempt. This should define Paklin as the sole silver medalist, at least according to the general tie-breaking rules outlined in this article. Was there another set of tie-breaking rules at hand in Rome in 1987? In that case I think this should be sourced.--Paracel63 (talk) 11:19, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
I accept that you'll not often see any technique other than the Fosbury Flop these days.
But a competitor in this week's Commonwealth Games decathlon - Dale Garland of Guernsey who came 5th overall - straddled, and did so quite effectively. Thus it's not completely gone from top level competition, so should the reference to it be amended to be slightly less "past tense"? AndyofKent 10:50, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
For istance, not for IAAF. What do you think about? User Jojhutton insert totally in the article (same thing in pole vault). --Learasmus (talk) 06:40, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
i notice there is nothing about the Brill Bend in this article. Debbie Brill independently developed a version of the flop and is generally recognised as being a pioneer in the event. David D. (Talk) 04:01, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
States in the article that the jump is measure from where the jumper took off to the top of the lowest part of the bar. As fair as I am aware it is taken from the floor directly below the lowest part of the bar, not where the athlete took off. Can anyone tell me otherwise? Cls14 16:44, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
Why is there an indoor and outdoor version of this sport? Is there any historical information on the reasons for this? It seems kind of strange. Jecowa (talk) 14:13, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
Are they outdoor or indoor records?? Cause Thränhardt never did 2.42 outdoors, only 2.37. Dabean (talk) 22:51, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
"At the elite level, athletes run towards the bar and use the Fosbury Flop method of jumping, leaping head first with their back to the bar."
This is an irrelevance. Almost all jumpers - elite or otherwise - use the so-called "Fosbury flop" technique today. Unless anyone can come up with a reason why it should stay, I recommend it be removed. Flanker235 (talk) 00:36, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
I believe the world record is misstated in the box article in the right column, and in the 3rd paragraph of the main article. It is stated at 3.45 m. I believe it is actually 2.45 m. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.15.92.57 (talk) 12:34, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
I am not competent to do this. I tried but I can't make it work.
The detail which needs to be changed is the German section which now goes to nine athletes, the latest being Marie-Laurence Jungfleisch who jumped 2.00 metres to win at Eberstadt this year. Would someone mind changing this please? Cheers, Flanker235 (talk) 06:40, 30 August 2016 (UTC)
Caitlyn Jenner's 1976 world best is continually being reverted to another athlete's lesser performance. This last time, the stated reason was "unsourced or poorly sourced." However, the source for Jenner's 2.06 jump is http://www.sports-reference.com/olympics/athletes/je/bruce-jenner-1.html, accepted elsewhere on Wikipedia. It appears to me that there is some dangerous misgendering afoot.
Wikipedia accepts that Caitlyin is a woman. There's no reason to belittle her accomplishments. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:808C:2100:307D:1615:B850:199F (talk) 23:52, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
I note there is a comment that flop jumpers alter their run up with increasing height. As a former jumper and coach, I have never heard of this or seen any reference to it. A high jump run up is like a golf swing; it is practiced, refined and practiced more until it is as near perfect and consistent as it can be. Each step is measured and marked precisely and you can see tape and chalk marks all over a competition surface. Golfers do not change their swing appreciably with distance. They change the club. They might change the effort/power. For the same reason that a golfer wouldn't change their swing in competition, high jumpers don't alter their run ups in competition unless there is a serious need to do so. I also notice that this refers specifically to flop jumpers. In this respect there is no difference whatsoever. Altering run-up length in competition is a last resort. Flanker235 (talk) 23:58, 2 September 2016 (UTC)
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Is there verifiable information on techniques used in jumps?
I was thinking that it would be great to have top5/top10 (depending on data available) lists of jumps in each of different techniques (Scissors, Eastern cut-off, Straddle, Western roll; there is also "somersaulting high jump" however the technique of jumping off of two feet is banned so it's hard to pull it off) to compare techniques and to complement fosbury flop list (all time 25). This would be interesting because there was no other athletics discipline that went through so much evolution. 213.149.62.148 (talk) 16:23, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
invented by Debbie Brill.
difference between brill bend and fosbury flop.
"which came first?" debate. http://www.drmichaeljoyner.com/dick-fosbury-who-innovated-what/ there is a video of her performing it at the age of 13 in 1966
Here it says (https://www.si.com/vault/1971/02/22/554323/she-gets-her-back-up) "The Brill Bend is not to be confused with the Fosbury Flop."
Here (http://rethinkingathletics.blogspot.hr/2013/11/on-flops-and-bends.html) we have 1963 competition in Montana shows a young guy named Bruce Quande jumping in the flop style. 213.149.61.247 (talk) 15:35, 11 May 2018 (UTC)
Somersaulting is not banned in high jump, however, the technique of jumping off of two feet is - so it is very difficult but not impossible to pull it of. Are there any information on those jumps? Results (on any level, but official competition)? 213.149.61.252 (talk) 17:24, 1 May 2018 (UTC)
ca. 1960 Bob Avant was using a "reverse flop", i.e. a facing forward flop (ran fairly straight at the bar , took off on his foot closest to the bar, just like all straddlers, but then went up with the arms and head first, with rest of torso and feet following. It was in effect a straight dive, chest/stomach facing the bar all the way.) 213.149.61.247 (talk) 15:45, 11 May 2018 (UTC)
There is nothing in the article about it, as is also the case with 2 feet jump (which was legal at first and later illegal). This one was illegal and later legal. This is to complement history of fosbury flop. There are rumors (testimonies from people involved in athletics) of people using it as early as 1930s (Germany) but head-over-first was illegal at the time. 213.149.61.247 (talk) 15:50, 11 May 2018 (UTC)
It is clearly stated in the article that jumpers must take off on one foot. But was that the rule since the beginning? Or was it maybe in early years up to jumper (until when)? It should be made explicit in the article 'cause it's essential information. 213.149.61.252 (talk) 17:24, 1 May 2018 (UTC)
Perhaps it's an idea to split the history paragraph into the different jumping technique era's, such as underneath (not sure whether the years are correct, though roughly they are.):
Although there are still some jumpers using the Straddle technique, it's safe to say that this technique has become extinct. Therefore, it's possible to give a 'from - to date' to the technique. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.156.152.62 (talk) 19:11, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
An interesting sidenote to this discussion: When Dwight Stones set his first WR - the fisrt flop world record - in 1973, of the 18 attempts he took at the competition, 4 were with the straddle technique. All his attempts starting at 2.18 and higher were with the flop technique. Canada Jack (talk) 19:47, 10 July 2018 (UTC)
why does the first photograph, supposedly demonstrating high jumping technique, show the jumper missing her jump? if you click on the photo, the photo even says she is 'failing.' there are a bazillion photos you could use of successful jumps. it seems very odd to use that one. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:6c55:4b00:1c7:b5a4:d636:57f2:ff56 (talk • contribs)
The technical aspect were grouped into two large chunks of information. I have added a clearer step by step explanation of what is going on technically during high jump without taking away from the previous explanation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by KhedSnead (talk • contribs) 17:01, 12 February 2020 (UTC)
The table of national records is incomplete (>100 records missing). Therefore I suggest applying the World Athletics limits of 2.20 m and 1.88 m respectively. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A0A:A547:2E5C:0:50A7:16CC:2B5F:48FF (talk) 21:21, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
Men's national records are up to date as of December 2020. In the next days, I will update the Women's records. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A0A:A547:2E5C:0:50A7:16CC:2B5F:48FF (talk) 21:46, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
The Women's national records are now up to date.
As I pointed out in the post above, the list of "national records" has a great many incorrect marks, as some editors seem to think marks set indoors can stand as national records. But a glance at the list of national records maintained by World Athletics shows that only outdoor marks are considered for national records. A quick glance showed numerous incorrect entries, and this was just on the men's side. The women's list starts on page 604, same link.
A quick glance on the women's side... Sweden's record is 2.06, not the indoor 2.08... Germany 2.06, not 2.07...Romania 2.02, not 2.03... Again, the World Athletics list is only accurate to 2009... but none of these claimed records were set since, they were all indoors set previously to 2009. Canada Jack (talk) 21:24, 28 June 2021 (UTC)
I removed the co-mingle lists AGAIN - If you agree that the combined lists need to be replaced by indoor lists, then solution is not to re-insert the problematic sections. Solution is to create indoor lists. I've done the heavy lifting in creating the all-time outdoor lists, someone else can work on the indoor lists. Canada Jack (talk) 14:32, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
You are arguing that we decide - not World Athletics - what National Records are? Are you serious? That is so blatantly Original Research, I really don't know what else to say.
I did a quick survey of the National Records per World Athletics - and the list we have here is WRONG and it is time to fix it.
Indeed, the individual National Record pages here on wikipedia match what World Athletics says - the German national page has Thrahardt's 2.37 as the record, confirming what I said, even the Swedish national page lists for the pole vault the mark that Duplantis set OUTDOORS of 6.15m - not his superior indoor mark of 6.18m, the current world record - as the national record. (And, no the outdoor mark was set AFTER the indoor mark, so this is not a case of a page not having been updated.)
You seem to fundamentally misunderstand what that rule from 2000 means.
First, and most obviously, the rule applies to WORLD records, NOT national records! If this was not so, where all the indoor marks on the lists of national records? They aren't there because indoor marks don't qualify for over-all national records, some however can qualify for world records! Which is all the rule says.
Secondly, it is not a blanket "okay" to any mark set indoors that it is somehow "equal" to a mark set outdoors. It simply means that the presence of a roof in and of itself does not disqualify a mark from being recognized as a world record, as it did previously. THAT'S ALL. All the other rules and specifications still apply, which is why virtually no running records can be set indoors (few such facilities have 400m tracks), and many field events may not qualify either, especially in the high jump, depending on the surface conditions. Which is why Thanhardt's mark was not eligible to stand as a world record back in 1988, even though it initially was considered to be a record. The pole vault is one of the few events where the specifications almost routinely match, hence there have been something like 10 world records set indoors the past 20 years.
To put a finer point on it, many high jump performances done indoors would never qualify for a world record, the roof notwithstanding, as other conditions for the meet may not match the specifications required for a regular outdoor meet. And, again, Carlo Thranhardt's 2.42 is the classic example of that. If someone jumped 2.46 today under the conditions Thranhardt did in 1988, he may get credit for an indoor record, but he wouldn't get a World Record as it would not be up to spec. Yet, by your reasoning, that person would hold the World Record and be placed on top of this bogus "absolute" list. Wrong.
Bottom line, the list of National Records has to be substantially revised. "even though World Athletics doesn't run an absolute top list, there is no reason (since 2000, Rule 260.18) why Wikipedia shouldn't." Yes there is a reason. Because it's Original Research. We are granting athletes "national records" the sport itself fails to grant. Which is blatantly wrong and blatantly Original Research. Canada Jack (talk) 20:33, 30 June 2021 (UTC)
Canada Jack (talk) 20:33, 30 June 2021 (UTC)
Good work on cleaning up my mistakes, 2A0A. Just as a head's up, I am working on a similar approach to the pole vault... so keep your eyes open. if Duplantis does something amazing in Stockholm, maybe it'll make the list! Canada Jack (talk) 18:51, 3 July 2021 (UTC)
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