Talk:Fantasy trope

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Per WP:NOTCURRENTTITLE and WP:BARTENDER, consensus is clearly split in this discussion, and while there is clear consensus that the article should move away from the present title, both the original proposal and alternative proposal have almost indistinguishable levels of support based in policy and explanatory positions. Neither of the two general options presented appears to have a clear consensus. Per the closing instructions, as this is a NOTCURRENTTITLE close, anyone who objects to this close is permitted to propose the alternative title as a separate RM at any time without being in breach of RM norms regarding wait times between move requests. (closed by non-admin page mover) EggRoll97 ^(talk) 00:12, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

Fantasy tropes → Fantasy trope – Per WP:NCPLURAL. ‑‑Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 02:15, 30 October 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. Polyamorph (talk) 15:57, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

• Support per WP:SINGULAR. Rreagan007 (talk) 07:05, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
• Support per MOS:PLURAL. Primergrey (talk) 07:10, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
• Support per ... WP:NCPLURAL, WP:SINGULAR, and MOS:PLURAL. InfiniteNexus (talk) 23:27, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose Largely because this article isn't about the concept of a fantasy trope, just a list of them. Support an alternate move to Tropes in fantasy though. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 06:09, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose and support Tropes in fantasy per Zxcvbnm. Broadly speaking, there are three types of disambiguators: 1) dab + noun, like Association football; 2) noun (dab), like Thriller (song); 3) dab prep noun, like Murder in California law. The second and third types serve very distinct purposes: the second is for when the noun can have many different senses, and the disambiguator helps distinguish which sense the article is about; the third is for when the noun means more or less the same thing as the overall main topic, but the disambiguator limits the scope of the article. The first one is sort of in-between, but definitely implies that dab + noun is an actual concept that exists. I think it is much more helpful to think of fantasy tropes not as a concept that exists in and of itself, but rather just Trope (literature) as applied to the genre of fantasy. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 09:56, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

  I'd personally be fine with Trope (fantasy literature). Primergrey (talk) 15:23, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

  That is a type-2 disambiguator and is wrong according to what I've described, because it implies that there is some special thing called a "trope" in fantasy literature which is distinct from a normal trope in literature. Tropes in fantasy literature would also be fine though. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 16:29, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

  Exactly; this is talking about the same concept, but applied to fantasy, not a separate concept unique to fantasy. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 18:51, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

• Agree with Zxcvbnm and King of Hearts that Tropes in fantasy would be preferable. I'd also be OK with Tropes in fantasy literature but think just fantasy is precise enough. Jenks24 (talk) 00:15, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
• Support original proposal - make Fantasy trope be singular. Oppose the alternative suggestion, the subject of this article is actually fantasy tropes, which is a well-understood term, and there's no need to make the title longer, wordier and using terminology not usually used.  — Amakuru (talk) 14:29, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

  The problem is that "fantasy trope" is not really a distinct concept that exists by itself, but rather is nothing more than just a Trope (literature) narrowed down to the genre of fantasy. So it's a class of things rather than a thing that can be defined on its own, and per WP:NCPLURAL it should remain in the plural. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 17:50, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose per Zxcvbnm and King of Hearts. This article is about a group or class of specific things – i.e., the group of tropes that commonly occur in the fantasy genre – and thus a plural title is appropriate per WP:PLURAL. I'm also open to the alternate title proposal of Tropes in fantasy. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 14:57, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

Relisting comment: Rough consensus for moving but it is not yet clear which title to move to Polyamorph (talk) 15:57, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

I don't think this is the right way to evaluate these multi-way RMs: 1) Is there consensus for a move? 2) Now that there's consensus for a move, where should we move it? This presumes that all supporters of some move believe that the current title is unacceptable and that any other title is better than the current one. Based on what I've seen from the discussion so far, it seems that supporters of Tropes in fantasy generally prefer the original title, Fantasy tropes, over Fantasy trope, while supporters of the singular title are mostly indifferent between the plural titles. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 05:03, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose move. As others said, this article is about general tropes in fantasy settings. Fantasy trope in of itself is not the topic of the article. I oppose moving to tropes in fantasy since the differences are minor and the current title is MOS:CONCISE. Ca ^{talk to me!} 03:37, 18 November 2023 (UTC)