Talk:2019 World Touring Car Cup

Here are some essential guidelines that need to be followed for this article:

• Content like announced teams, drivers, circuits, rule changes etc. must be followed by verified source. The places where you can find verified information are these - FIA WTCR's official website, TouringCarTimes, TouringCars.NET, Autosport, Motorsport.com and other sources that seem authentic and relevant (like the teams' official website). Any information that is not verified or irrelevant will be purged from the page. Also, references from social media accounts are not recconmended as the information obtained from there for the most part is vauge and not in much detail.
• FIA WTCR does not allow manufacturer teams. If a certain manufacturer announces driver or drivers which will drive its cars (or will be supported by said manufactuer as works supported drivers are allowed) without announcing the team will have TBA in the team section. There were edits that show the announced Hyundai drivers as driving for Hyundai Motorsport, but in reality Hyundai cannot enter the series as Hyundai Motorsport since it will violate the rules.
• Several events like those in Morocco and Japan had sponsors (i.e. AFRIQUA Race of Morocco and JVCKENWOOD Race of Japan). It is not confirmed if these names would be carried over in the 2019 season, so therefore the race names should be left sponsorless until further notice.
• Do not enter car numbers until further notice (i.e. release of the entry list)

That covers the most important stuff. If you have any questions, you can ask them in this talk page. Ivaneurope (talk) 16:29, 8 December 2018 (UTC)

To clarify some things:

• Pole position is determined only for races 1 and 3. Race 2 uses the Top 10 results from Q2 of the second qualifying session in reverse order (i.e. the 10th starts 1st, the 9th - 2nd and so on), but that does not mean that he has won pole position for that race.
• The entries are ordered by driver numbers.

Further discussions can be made here. Ivaneurope (talk) 12:59, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

Regarding the ordering in the entry lists, the argument "as always as been" doesn´t seem reasonable to me. Like 2019 MotoGP season (the previous seasons were also ordered according with entry number), the entries of same manufacturer should be grouped by manufacturer, due to new sporting rules (1 or 2 teams by each manufacturer, 2 or 4 cars). And although there is no factory teams, the teams receive support from the manufacturers.Rpo.castro (talk) 12:59, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

The 2019 Deutsche Tourenwagen Masters season article does follow similar-ish format of grouping. But we need universally format that can be agreen on by everyone.Ivaneurope (talk) 13:10, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

What do you mean by "universally format"? A format for all motorsport in wikipedia? That is impossible to reach. In my opinion, in WTCR grouping by manufacturers make sense. For exemple, Cyan Racing Lynk & Co and Cyan Performance Lynk & Co shouldn't be together? Another example, when the manufacturers presented the earliers entries, some riders didn't knew the team, like Tiago Monteiro who knew (in October) that he would race in a Honda but the team wasn't known team wasn't known. I think grouping by manufacturer makes more sense than just a number picked by the drivers (it's not like in old times when champions was #1 and so on) and helps to a better understanding of the list.Rpo.castro (talk) 14:07, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

It's not up to me to decide it - it may very well be reverted Ivaneurope (talk) 17:50, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

Here's how it will look like using a format based on the one for the Deutsche Tourenwagen Masters:

Make	Car	Team	No.	Drivers	Rounds
Hyundai	Hyundai i30 N TCR	BRC Hyundai N Squadra Corse	1	Gabriele Tarquini	1
			5	Norbert Michelisz	1
		BRC Hyundai N LUKOIL Racing Team	8	Augusto Farfus	1
			88	Nick Catsburg	1
Honda	Honda Civic Type R TCR (FK8)	KCMG	9	Attila Tassi	1
			18	Tiago Monteiro	1
		ALL-INKL.COM Münnich Motorsport	29	Néstor Girolami	1
			86	Esteban Guerrieri	1
Audi	Audi RS 3 LMS TCR	Comtoyou Team Audi Sport	10	Niels Langeveld	1
			22	Frédéric Vervisch	1
		Leopard Racing Team Audi Sport	52	Gordon Shedden	1
			69	Jean-Karl Vernay	1
Lynk & Co	Lynk & Co 03 TCR	Cyan Racing Lynk & Co	11	Thed Björk	1
			100	Yvan Muller	1
		Cyan Performance Lynk & Co	68	Yann Ehrlacher	1
			111	Andy Priaulx	1
Volkswagen	Volkswagen Golf GTI TCR	SLR VW Motorsport	12	Robert Huff	1
			25	Mehdi Bennani	1
		SLR Volkswagen	14	Johan Kristoffersson	1
			33	Benjamin Leuchter	1
		TBA	TBA	Mitchell Cheah	10
CUPRA	CUPRA León TCR	Comtoyou Team DHL CUPRA Racing	21	Aurélien Panis	1
			50	Tom Coronel	1
		PWR Racing	37	Daniel Haglöf	1
			96	Mikel Azcona	1
Alfa Romeo	Alfa Romeo Giulietta Veloce TCR	Mulsanne Srl	31	Kevin Ceccon	1
			55	Ma Qing Hua	1

Ivaneurope (talk) 23:06, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

It looks good for me. I would agree with this solution. I'm not saying that one way is right and other is wrong, just seems to me that grouping by make has some interesting advantages.Rpo.castro (talk) 15:50, 10 April 2019 (UTC)

In my opinion, this looks more messy. I dont see why we should use this table setup, it doesn't add anything we didn't already show in the table. It essentially just shows the manufacturers entered in the series and that could already be seen in the Car column. CGM 20 (talk) 08:11, 11 April 2019 (UTC)

But then we're entering different problem - BRC, SLR, Comtoyou and Cyan all effectively run four cars (Comtoyou runs cars from different manufacturers). If we keep using the current order system with the car numbers, we have both the Comtoyou and Cyan entries split into distant rows (that isn't the case with BRC and SLR). A simmilar case happened in the 2019 TCR Asia Series article where Hyundai Team Engstler and Volkswagen Team Oettinger were split in the entry table by Prince Racing (@CGM 20: I think you made this edit) despite that both entries are run by Engstler Motorsport.Ivaneurope (talk) 09:28, 11 April 2019 (UTC)

I still dont see the problem, since they are considered two different teams in the championship standings, they dont need to be placed together in the table. But if its that important, then place them together in the table, like in the various Blancpain tables. CGM 20 (talk) 11:25, 11 April 2019 (UTC)

Why can't we put constructors columns in the results and standings tables? I know there is no constructors championship, but I thought it would be easier for people who don't know the series well to know what car each team is using and save time. Many people are probably more interested in the constructor rather than the team. Edit: Also, the official website mentions the constructor: https://www.fiawtcr.com/standings/# Carfan568 (talk) 21:48, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

The World Touring Car Cup does not have constructors championship and therefore no constructors column should be placed in results.
I'm also adding to the discussion @CGM 20, Link7344, Poppo154, NotJohnHindhaugh, Holdenman05, Tvx1, Mclarenfan17, and Corvus tristis: Share your thoughts.Ivaneurope (talk) 04:42, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

While there is no constructors' championship, I don't think that the inclusion of a constructors' column implies the existence of such a championship. If the article is properly written, it should indicate to the reader that there is no such championship. Mclarenfan17 (talk) 10:52, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

Or we can integrate the 'make' column like it's done in the Blancpain Series article, but only in the teams' championship table and nowhere else.
I'm also adding @Nbooth4 to the conversation. Ivaneurope (talk) 19:47, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

Yes, I think it makes sense to add a column to the teams' standings like in the Blancpain articles. Carfan568 (talk) 18:46, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

IMHO, the table is quite wide already, it is barely seen without scrolling on the notebook. Half of the teams include the manufacturer name, so I'm not sure if this justified enough for inclusion. Corvus tristis (talk) 10:11, 10 July 2019 (UTC)

Here is how it would look like:

(key)

Pos. Team Make No. MAR HUN SVK NLD GER PRT CHN JPN MAC MAL Pts. 1 ALL-INKL.COM Münnich Motorsport Honda 29 34 10 6 11 1 65 Ret 1 24 14 10 14 33 24 18 10 9 6 408 86 11 4 4 33 5 Ret2 15 2 75 11 1 8 21 6 33 22 3 Ret 2 Cyan Racing Lynk & Co Lynk & Co 11 23 6 13 7 Ret 5 23 22 11 11 12 12 115 12 Ret 8 13 7 336 100 182 7 Ret2 22 6 Ret 11 11 14 22 9 55 Ret 15 10 9 6 24 3 BRC Hyundai N Squadra Corse Hyundai 1 4 1 5 13 17 14 6 19 9 20 13 9 Ret 7 55 Ret Ret 14 327 5 11 12 8 10 Ret 21 32 6 22 Ret 7 33 12 23 Ret4 11 Ret 9 4 BRC Hyundai N LUKOIL Racing Team Hyundai 8 13 11 Ret 9 9 8 5 21 7 Ret 6 44 8 3 Ret 32 Ret Ret 236 88 10 Ret DNS 23 10 9 71 4 121 10 4 11 9 DSQ 8 5 5 Ret 5 PWR Racing CUPRA 37 20 16 10 11 3 24 194 20 Ret4 12 19 23 Ret 17 Ret 23 21 Ret 204 96 15 5 35 22 4 4 9 7 5 35 5 6 18 13 13 12 1 4 6 Cyan Performance Lynk & Co Lynk & Co 68 8 3 Ret Ret5 Ret 33 22 17 20 74 8 21 6 Ret Ret 23 8 33 191 111 55 13 13 12 Ret 20 21 18 22 53 18 15 22 18 19 11 15 18 7 SLR Volkswagen Volkswagen 14 Ret 17 17 8 Ret 22 20 15 18 4 3 7 10 1 Ret 7 14 10 182 33 16 23 20 20 12 17 14 Ret 16 8 2 Ret 7 5 11 16 17 17 8 Comtoyou Team Audi Sport Audi 10 Ret 18 18 24 Ret 18 16 8 4 15 17 17 14 20 12 14 18 15 168 22 17 9 21 6 15 12 1 Ret 21 9 21 16 54 2 2 DSQ 12 Ret 9 Team Mulsanne Alfa Romeo 31 9 19 16 19 16 Ret Ret 3 3 18 20 18 19 19 11 18 Ret 12 152 55 Ret Ret 9 25 11 19 23 9 13 21 25 21 21 22 13 135 2 8 10 Leopard Racing Team Audi Sport Audi 52 14 15 7 Ret Ret 21 12 13 15 17 22 24 Ret 21 9 16 20 Ret 152 69 7 2 Ret 4 2 10 4 12 Ret 22 15 25 12 9 4 DSQ 4 DSQ 11 SLR VW Motorsport Volkswagen 12 12 22 15 14 7 7 13 5 13 Ret 11 10 4 Ret DNS2 44 7 55 134 25 Ret Ret 12 16 Ret 15 Ret 14 19 6 16 13 15 16 16 20 19 13 12 Comtoyou Team DHL CUPRA Racing CUPRA 21 Ret 21 19 54 13 11 Ret Ret 8 13 14 12 17 8 7 6 16 11 113 50 Ret 14 14 17 14 13 85 10 23 16 24 20 13 10 6 17 DSQ 16 13 KCMG Honda 9 19 20 11 15 8 14 18 Ret 25 DSQ Ret 22 20 4 Ret 19 11 Ret1 97 18 6 8 Ret4 18 Ret 16 17 16 17 19 23 19 16 14 17 21 10 12 Wildcard entries ineligible to score points Hyundai Team Engstler Hyundai 6 10 Ret 10 AS Motorsport Audi 13 23 11 15 Zengõ Motorsport CUPRA 23 21 18 23

Bold – Pole
Italics – Fastest Lap

Carfan568 (talk) 14:37, 10 July 2019 (UTC)

Honestly, I'd remove the flagicons.Ivaneurope (talk) 18:28, 10 July 2019 (UTC)

Flagicons for manufacturers are inappropriate, we do not have sources that they are entered under certain racing license. Also the table in the 75% size looks quite inaccessible, 85% is a minimal accessible size. I think that we at least should replace legend template with the link to it. Corvus tristis (talk) 05:35, 11 July 2019 (UTC)

So it's fine if we add the column without the flagicons? Carfan568 (talk) 09:40, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

As I said previously: Half of the teams include the manufacturer name, so I'm not sure if this justified enough for inclusion, also there is no problem to look in the teams and drivers table. Corvus tristis (talk) 17:41, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

But in 2018 only the Audi teams had the manufacturer name, so I think we shouldn't rely on most teams having it. Also I don't really see any downsides if we add them. Carfan568 (talk) 19:41, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

They table is very wide already, and adding another column is a downside. Also you should definitely read MOS:FLAG and stop adding nonsense flagicons to manufacturers. Corvus tristis (talk) 02:00, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

If we remove the legend template and instead add a link to it, the table wouldn't be so wide. I edited the table above to show what it would look like and also removed the flagicons. Carfan568 (talk) 09:24, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

Look at the 2018 article, it is still requires a little scrolling on the most of notebooks, with extra column it is inaccessible. Manufacturer info is trivial to Teams' championship. Corvus tristis (talk) 09:59, 19 July 2019 (UTC)