Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/SmallCat dispute/Workshop: Difference between revisions

::What I've learnt is that I should be more careful about trying too hard to solve this whole situation on my own. (This has a lot to do with me feeling responsible for having, in my understanding, set off a chain of events that led us to the ANI because I was (one of) the first to [https:https://www.search.com.vn/wiki/index.php?lang=en&q=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_June_13&diff=prev&oldid=1160291641 raise civility issues (14:48, 15 June 2023)]. I felt like I had to bring the process, that I thought I had put in motion, to a good conclusion, but took on too much responsibility). Several editors pointed me to [[WP:BADGER]] and [[WP:BLUDGEON]], which I had never heard about, but I realised that they were right that it applied to me at the ANI. I should also be more careful when editing late at night; when I'm tired, I'm somewhat more prone to lose my patience, and I have more difficulty being the good Wikipedian I'm really trying to be, and the example I'm trying to set. And I'm grateful that [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1134#Proposal B: IBAN Between User:BrownHairedGirl and User: Nederlandse Leeuw|most fellow editors expressed that my conduct had been civil and amicable so far]]; I strive to uphold that. I really hope this ARC will lead to an outcome which will prevent future conflicts between us. I felt that me making this apology to you would be necessary in order to do that. I am still open to working together with you on topics we both care about, should you be interested. Have a good day, and good luck with preparing your defence. Cheers, [[User:Nederlandse Leeuw|Nederlandse Leeuw]] ([[User talk:Nederlandse Leeuw|talk]]) 14:24, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

:::@[[User:Nederlandse Leeuw|Nederlandse Leeuw]]: Thank you for trying to aologise. But the basis of your apology is so radically different to the facts that I am unable to accept it.<br >The overall problem is that I have seen no stage in the whole saga when you have, as you claim, been trying to be a diplomat or mediator or conciliator, despite your claims since this came to Arbcom. On the contrary, you have repeatedly tred to stoke conflict and to attack me.<br />E.g. at [[WP:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 June 13#Expatriates_A-G]], you posted at length[https:https://www.search.com.vn/wiki/index.php?lang=en&q=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_June_13&diff=prev&oldid=1160291641] to stoke conflict, by accusing me of<br />a) using DRV for {{tq|sort of 'intimidating' the closer|q=y}};<br />b)Made three allegatios agaist me of ABF.<br />Note that you entirely avoided any substantive comment on the core reasons I oposed the nominations: {{tq|the sheer scale of this nomination makes it impossible to believe that the nominator has done WP:BEFORE to ensure that these categories all fulfill WP:SMALLCAT which is for "Small with no potential for growth"|q=y}}. You addressed neither the nomination's failure to respect anyting other than the first word of SMALLCAT not the impossibility of believing that the nominator had checked potential for growth. Instead of asking ''why'' I made that assertion, you went stright to attacking me for making it. If you want to resolve a dispute, the way to respnd to an assertion that seems problematic is to ask for explanation; that way, the dialoge may reach agreement. But instead, you adopted the dispute-escalation path of adding an extra layer of dispute, over whether I assumed bad faith.<br />Nonetheless, I explained[https:https://www.search.com.vn/wiki/index.php?lang=en&q=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_June_13&diff=prev&oldid=1160626407] to NL ''why'' I had found {{tq|impossible to believe that the nominator has done WP:BEFORE to ensure that these categories all fulfill WP:SMALLCAT|q=y}}.<br />Yet at ANI, you repeated that assertion in full, ''without'' noting my explanation. (the diffs are unavailable, but see my response timestamped {{nowrap|<code>09:54, 7 July 2023</code>}} in the archive [[WP:Administrators%27 noticeboard/IncidentArchive1134#BrownHairedGirl's_lack_of_civility_in_CFD]]). That was dispute escalation, and your replies escalated it further. You continued to try to frame it all a he-said/she-said dispute, while repeatedly failing to engage with the very simple core point: that Oculi's nomination at [[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 June 13#Expatriates_A-G]] wholly misrepresented SMALLCAT by ignoring all of the 100+ word guideline apart from its first word "small". Instead, in that long discussion between us at ANI, you repeatedly demanded that I either recuse myself from all SMALLCAT-related discussions, or be topic-banned from them.<br /> And as to your claims that you made "jokes" which you regret: no. The reality is that having preached at me about civitty, you set out to mock me and to invite other editors to mock me.<br />It has taken me over an hour of diff-farming my way through multiple old discussions to write this reply. I don't have the energy or inclination to do more of this. The core issue here is and always has been very very simple: that CFD nominations which cite [[WP:SMALLCAT]] but are based solely on the current size of a category are invalid because they ignore everything after the first word of the headline '''{{nowrap|Small with no potential for growth}}''', and they unambiguously flout SMALLCAT's clear assertion '''{{nowrap|"Note also that this criterion does not preclude all small categories"}}'''. No amount of diff-farming will alter the fact that this is all entirely about why some editors repeatedly misrepresent that short and simple guideline.<br />So I have no wish to collaborate with you on anything at all. My experience of you so far has all been of this SMALLCAT-related dispute, in which you have repeatedly complicated a very simple issue about a unusually short guideline into a vast, sprawling, multi-pronged timesink of a dispute which is being conducted in a way that cannot resolve the simple underlying issue, which I summarise as {{nowrap|"Do the words in [[WP:SMALLCAT]] mean what they say?"}}. I wish you well, but I want to work with editors who ''solve'' problems rather than escalating dramas. So I want to [[WP:DISENGAGE]] from you entirely. [[User:BrownHairedGirl|<span style="font-variant:small-caps"><span style="color:#663200;">Brown</span>HairedGirl</span>]] <small>[[User talk:BrownHairedGirl|(talk)]] • ([[Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl|contribs]])</small> 16:13, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

===Apology from Laurel_Lodged to BHG===

My thanks to {{Ping|Nederlandse Leeuw}} for reminding me of my obligations in common charity. A better Christian than I would not have needed such a reminder. For how can I expect justice in this case whilst denying what is right and just in the case of BHG? [[Matthew 5:23–24]] seems to be pertinent. What I say now is not done in the hope that it will influence the outcome of this case; I have a fair idea already of the direction that the decision will go. Rather I do so because it is the right thing do, and BHG, while not without sin herself, is still a person with feelings - feelings that my actions have hurt. So then, I have written things to {{Ping|BrownHairedGirl}} and about BHG that cannot fail to have hurt her. While baiting — probably mutual baiting — was involved that might explain some of those things, it is irrelevant nor can it ever serve as a real excuse. I ought to have avoided the temptation to be sarcastic and to use mockery to undermine her arguments; in failing to rise above these base urgings, I caused her hurt. Above all, of the many things that I have written over the years that caused offense, the worst (and least effective!) things were those that ridiculed her insights and skills. Everybody is aware of her skills. No. They were written to touch on what I knew to be her weakest point - her vanity and pride in her skills. It mattered little that what I wrote was inaccurate or not really worked out; the point was that I knew in advance that the barb would drive home. In that knowledge lies the offence and my guilt. I apologise for causing the hurt. It was wrong. I promise to not offend in this way again. I offer this promise whether or not it is reciprocated. It is also offered in the sad self-awareness that I may be unable to resist future provocations, despite best intentions. [[User:Laurel Lodged|Laurel Lodged]] ([[User talk:Laurel Lodged|talk]]) 18:58, 30 July 2023 (UTC)